Talk:Boxer (Stick Ranger)
build section Recently User:Cheezewheel has added a long build section. I don't think the section was good for the Boxer article for several reasons: * The section is very confusing structured. Level 4 headings follow level 2 headings. And if I got it right calculations should be a subsection of Needle Glove. and so on. * The use of code sections make this article even more confusing. * The article gives no reason why a level 20 character is used for comparison. It does neither tell that the comparison would be different for a level 10 or a level 30 character, nor what would be different. Would the other build be better or worse? And where would be a break-even point? * The article explains that it is comparing four weapon compositions (two weapons with and without items). But it does not explain that it is comparing two different SP distibutions for each of the four compositions. It's very hard to find this out, in the way the article was written. * Also it is difficult to verify that the same amount of SP has been distributed. The article doesn't tell this. * On the other hand, the article shows only 2 damage range values for 4 combinations of Mach Punch. It does not tell for which SP distribution these values are valid. * The article explains nearly none of the calculations. It does not show how the STR and the criticals card affect the damage values. The information that the damage range was averaged above the critical and non-critical hits is missing. * The article is not discussing the selection of compo items? Why have these items been selected for the corresponding weapon? Why is this the best choise? Can't there be a better choise? * The article is not discussing why only Needle Glove and Mach Punch (/Sonic Punch) are compared. What about the other gloves? For example Sparc Glove. * This article is nearly only understandable for "freaks". It took me some time to verify some of the calculations and I didn't even check the basic stat bonus. For averaged players this article is mostly not understandable except for the final conclusions at the end. And I guess most of them will have stopped reading before they reach it. But there are a few things I like about this comparison: * It could teach readers how to calculate the damage of a character correctly and make a valid compare. But there are far too few formulas given. * It also shows: There is no best build. It depends on what you are on to! For example this article shows a high defense value (during PvP) can ruin a good build. But there is a great danger that even if we make a well written and understandable article out of this, it is too much biased and depending on personal view. Futhermore these conclusions can turn invalid very fast during new Stick Ranger updates. Also I don't think article Boxer is the right place for an in-depth analysis of just two weapons. I think we should establish a "Tutorials, guides and walkthroughs" section in the wiki where we create a collection of several articles like this. We already discussed a few times about this. --Justme2 14:35, 13 June 2009 (UTC) I apologize for the inconvenience --Cheezewheel 11:30, 13 June 2009 (PST) No, problem! We are always happy to have people at the wiki who add usefull stuff. The guide is now at Comparison_Between_Pure_STR_and_Combo_Build(s)_For_Boxer. Furthermore Stick_Ranger_guides,_tutorials_and_walkthroughs has been created. --Justme2 14:56, 14 June 2009 (UTC) The following section has been removed from the article: ---- ---- Builds Damage comparison between Mach Punch (Pure Str Build) and Magical Gloves (Combo build) I will be using a theoretical comparison between a lvl 20 Boxer with Mach Puch one with Needle Gloves (as damage is more consistant than Spark Gloves) (Pics. would be helpful) Mach Punch Unmodified Lvl 20 w. Mach Modified Lvl 20 w. Mach ( Critical's card 2 and Red Stone 2) LP 202/242 STR 38/48DEX 0 MAG 0 AT 20-22 AGI 5-10 Range 15 Damage per 10 hits 200-220 damage unmodified 325-353 damage modified Needle Glove Unmodified Lvl 20 Boxer w. Needle (Blue Stone 2 and Grey Stone 2) Modified Lvl 20 Boxer w. Needle LP 168/226 STR 14+7 DEX 14 MAG 10+15 AT 9-11/12-14 AGI 5-10 Range 15 Damage per 10 hits 270-302 damage unmodified 520-620 damage modified (!) Calculations Needle Glove Unmodified 90-110 glove damage and 100-120 needle damage * 8/5 (8 needles, activates every 5 hits) 120-140 glove damage and 100-120 needle damage * 8/2 (Activated every 2 hits with 25 MAG) Final Notes Firstly, the Mach Punch build will tend to have a bit more LP (about 20-40) Unquestionably the Needle Glove does more damage. In PvE. Something to keep in mind is that if you plan to use your party in PvP the Needle glove will suffer a severe loss of damage output due to the Priest's Def Aura. An Aura of only 11 will virtually negate the damage bonus that the Needle Glove provides. Also, with the addition of the Sonic Punch, the "Mach Punch" build now allows for splash damage. The splash is so small that only enemies that are right on top of your target can get hit (Correct?), but this is a common occurance in PvP Scenarios. So on occasions when you are up against a party with more than 2 or more melee fighters or up against a team with a Defensive Priest the Sonic Punch will tend to outdamge the Needle Glove. The Needle Glove build is therefore the best for PvE, whereas the Mach Glove build will tend to allow for more consistant victories in PvP, without being horrible at PvE. ---- ---- End of section which has been removed from the article. Boxer STR Unless it's just me, the Str calculation for the boxer seems to be off a lot. It says for every SP invested, meaning every 1 point, you get +1 min and max attack when the str is even. This would probably mean that, for example, a boxer with 0 str and 1 str will have the same attack value, but one with 2 str will have +2-2 more damage per hit, because it says +1 per SP point. This means that 25 str would give the boxer more than 25 damage per hit. But right now, I equipped a red stone 2 to a spark glove (with 2-4 base damage) and the damage only rose to 7-9. Can someone please fix this? Or am I wrong about something? :It means that the Max AT and Min AT rises by 1 when you add 2 STR. Ivan247 04:47, September 5, 2009 (UTC) ::Yes, it does not just say, "+1 per SP point". It says "For every SP invested into STR: Min and max AT +1 if STR is an even number". So only every second time. Well can we formulate this in a better way to avoid this misunderstanding? ::Oh and MiracleMatter: Please sign your comments at talk pages by using this code --~~~~ which can be created with the button which looks like a signature (4th from left). --Justme2 11:14, September 6, 2009 (UTC) Got it. And it's actually 4th from the right. Thanks. =) -- 12:45, September 25, 2009 (UTC) The Boxer is quite weak at the beginning. However, he eventually becomes a powerhouse. Mathgenius 19:03, December 16, 2011 (UTC) Damn. Later on in the game, the Boxer starts to remind me of Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star. Especially with how fast he attacks. ATATATATATATATATATATATA DMSwordsmaster Talk 20:17, August 4, 2013 (UTC)